Kinsentite Blades
Kinsentite Blades
I recently awarded a player a kinsentite blade of choice. In palladium they're typically just slightly stronger than an equivalent vibro blade, typically +3 damage with some exceptions.
Should we just stick with +3 damage as a rule of thumb?
An alternate possibility is + 1 die type or +1d4, but I think those are a little more powerful as they can both ace.
Should we just stick with +3 damage as a rule of thumb?
An alternate possibility is + 1 die type or +1d4, but I think those are a little more powerful as they can both ace.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
In savage worlds, a +1 is the equivalent of a die improvement. A new d4 if the equivalent of +3 on average.
Personally, I think an improved die type or at max a +2 should be added.
Personally, I think an improved die type or at max a +2 should be added.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Hello,
I agree +3 is lot.
VV
I agree +3 is lot.
I don't see why Kinsentite has to do more damage, power creep and all that, maybe add another point or two of AP to represent how sharp it is?Savaging Rifts Ideas wrote:Also be careful about adding flat “+x” bonuses to dice damage; it’s a great way to represent a particularly powerful entry in a particular category, but those flat bonuses are very powerful and should be used sparingly.
VV
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Re: Kisentite Blades
Kisentite just always did slightly more damage in Palladium, though I don't think the systems it appeared in featured AP, so that might make sense. The best chart I know of is in Heroes Unlimited - Aliens Unlimited P. 165, they're all more powerful than equivalent CS Vibro Blades (GMG P. 124). Kisentite is on Rifts Earth and is features in some of the books (for instance, Sourcebook 4 P. 124).
The vibro blades in Aliens Unlimited are even more powerful, but I tend to think that's because they are alien tech, not CS vibro blades.
*note, misspelled it, it's 'kisentite', not 'kinsentite'.
The vibro blades in Aliens Unlimited are even more powerful, but I tend to think that's because they are alien tech, not CS vibro blades.
*note, misspelled it, it's 'kisentite', not 'kinsentite'.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Insource book 4, pg 124, it mentions the weapons are amazingly sharp and balanced. I could see an aditional 2pts of AP and +1 to parry being enough to give a mellee weapon a kinsenite trapping.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Looks like
AP and Parry might be good approaches to use over additional damage and seems to fit with the game philosophy and the avoidance of power creep.
AP and Parry might be good approaches to use over additional damage and seems to fit with the game philosophy and the avoidance of power creep.
VVSavaging Your Ideas wrote:Avoid adding more damage...Remember that other defining factors—such as Range, Rate of Fire, Armor Piercing (AP) value, etc. can help create variances between one kind of laser rifle and another.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Cool, so +2 AP and +1 Parry is an acceptable standard for a kisentite counterpart then? I'm happy with that, can we make it board official?
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
For approval. Kisentite weaponry should not do MD without some help. But it is just as expensive as vibro-weaponry regardless. I listed options because that was the intent in HUGG (the book they are from)
Kisentite Weaponry
Applies only to melee weapons: Due to its hardness and density, weapons made from kisentite have increased armor penetration. Due to their relative strength and near indestructibility, they are easier to parry with.
(May not be combined with the melee weapons from the Tomorrow Legion Player's Guide on page 92. May be modified by TW modifications.)
Kisentite Weaponry
Applies only to melee weapons: Due to its hardness and density, weapons made from kisentite have increased armor penetration. Due to their relative strength and near indestructibility, they are easier to parry with.
(May not be combined with the melee weapons from the Tomorrow Legion Player's Guide on page 92. May be modified by TW modifications.)
- +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 3000 credits
+1 AP = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 3000 credits
+1 AP, +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 6000 credits
+2 AP = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 7000 credits
+2 AP, +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 10000 credits
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"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Essentially super-tech modifications? Makes sense. If they don't do MD this is ok.High Command wrote:
- +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 3000 credits
+1 AP = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 3000 credits
+1 AP, +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 6000 credits
+2 AP = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 7000 credits
+2 AP, +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 10000 credits
VV
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Yeah, Kinsentite Blades definitely do not pass the walks like a tank test. Note they could parry MD weapons all day long and never be hurt. And all it takes is Greater Smite to make it MD. Or a TW mod. I could definitely see them as a preferred basis for TW weapons.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: Kinsentite Blades
I was going to write up an extensive post about them probably doing MD, but then I reconsidered after I re-read everything. If smite/TW modifications can strengthen them then I would assume they can also be made in to vibro weapons for non magical characters?
Everything here looks great, and I like the idea of them being something more creative to play with/modify rather than them being more powerful on their own.
Would prices be similar? In Queenston Harbor they are very inexpensive (2,000 to 4,500 credits), but I imagine that elsewhere they would be many times pricier as they are generally only available through/from Queenstown Harbor. Much like the other items I've put up for validation, these are rare.
Also, if anyone wants to take a look here is the spreadsheet I wrote up comparing Palladium Kisentite to Palladium Vibro Blades.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Everything here looks great, and I like the idea of them being something more creative to play with/modify rather than them being more powerful on their own.
Would prices be similar? In Queenston Harbor they are very inexpensive (2,000 to 4,500 credits), but I imagine that elsewhere they would be many times pricier as they are generally only available through/from Queenstown Harbor. Much like the other items I've put up for validation, these are rare.
Also, if anyone wants to take a look here is the spreadsheet I wrote up comparing Palladium Kisentite to Palladium Vibro Blades.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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- Pender Lumkiss
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
So Kinsentite Long Sword
Str+d8, 8lbs, AP2 +1 Parry-Cost 3000 creds.
Maybe just do the same as the sci-fi companion and multiply cost by 10.
Str+d8, 8lbs, AP2 +1 Parry-Cost 3000 creds.
Maybe just do the same as the sci-fi companion and multiply cost by 10.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
I have the companion but am not thoroughly familiar with it. Can you tell me what you're referencing?Pender Lumkiss wrote:So Kinsentite Long Sword
Str+d8, 8lbs, AP2 +1 Parry-Cost 3000 creds.
Maybe just do the same as the sci-fi companion and multiply cost by 10.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
I believe in the gear section it says you can use items from the sci-fi companion at 10x the cost.Beowulf85 wrote:I have the companion but am not thoroughly familiar with it. Can you tell me what you're referencing?Pender Lumkiss wrote:So Kinsentite Long Sword
Str+d8, 8lbs, AP2 +1 Parry-Cost 3000 creds.
Maybe just do the same as the sci-fi companion and multiply cost by 10.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Kinsentite is not well suited to being made vibro because of its rigidity. It is well suited to being enchanted though. I don't think Kinsentite NEEDS to be MD either. It's impossible to break very tough, but that doesn't mean that a normal person can use it to cut through tank armor. A normal person CAN use a Chain or Vibro weapon, or an Impact Hammer to bust through a tank armor all day long though, assuming they could use them effectively. In Aliens Unlimited, where the "metal" was first introduced, it has no special ability to bust through A.R. so I think the choice to make them M.D. in Rifts was wrong.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: Kinsentite Blades
Thinking about it that actually makes a lot of sense. I would argue that the material itself is mega damage, but that doesn't mean you can deal MD with it (unless your normal physical attacks are already MD).High Command wrote:Kinsentite is not well suited to being made vibro because of its rigidity. It is well suited to being enchanted though. I don't think Kinsentite NEEDS to be MD either. It's impossible to break very tough, but that doesn't mean that a normal person can use it to cut through tank armor. A normal person CAN use a Chain or Vibro weapon, or an Impact Hammer to bust through a tank armor all day long though, assuming they could use them effectively. In Aliens Unlimited, where the "metal" was first introduced, it has no special ability to bust through A.R. so I think the choice to make them M.D. in Rifts was wrong.
Beating on a tank with a mega damage hammer won't do anything to the tank because it's relying on the character's own strength for the damage, but vibro and chain weapons have a way of powering up their own attacks so characters with normal strength can use them to do mega damage.
Kisentite is basically just a super strong metal/alloy/rock that can make super sharp blades, but without the necessary strength a character can't force a blade through metal, regardless of how strong or sharp the blade is. That being said, I would think that creatures who can naturally deal mega damage with their unarmed melee attacks would be able to do mega damage with these blades. Does that make sense?
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Well sure, but that's because their strength, and not the weapon, has the MD quality.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: Kinsentite Blades
basically it could add a little bit of extra damage and have the trapping of indestructible, but does not do MD
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
*May also do MD if the character wielding the blade is capable of dealing MD with an unarmed melee attack.High Command wrote:For approval. Kisentite weaponry should not do MD without some help.* But it is just as expensive as vibro-weaponry regardless. I listed options because that was the intent in HUGG (the book they are from)
Kisentite Weaponry
Applies only to melee weapons: Due to its hardness and density, weapons made from kisentite have increased armor penetration. Due to their relative strength and near indestructibility, they are easier to parry with.
(May not be combined with the melee weapons from the Tomorrow Legion Player's Guide on page 92. May be modified by TW modifications.)
- +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 3000 credits **
+1 AP = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 3000 credits **
+1 AP, +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 6000 credits **
+2 AP = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 7000 credits **
+2 AP, +1 Parry = Standard Melee Weapon Cost + 10000 credits**
**More expensive when outside Queenston Harbor, which is the only known source for these blades on Rifts Earth. Queenston Harbor soldiers get a heavily discounted price, 2,000 credits for bayonets and 4,000 credits for swords of the highest quality available. Standard Melee Weapon Costs found in SWD and SFC.
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Re: Kinsentite Blades
Well if you want to make them even more expensive. Personally I thought just paying for the Kinsentite mod was expensive enough. And by weapon, I meant the ones out of SWD and SFC. NOT TLPG.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: Kinsentite Blades
Excellent, we'll go with those prices. I'll edit my proposal. I take it you approve because you wrote it up. As long as no one disapproves we'll get it moved over in a few days.High Command wrote:Well if you want to make them even more expensive. Personally I thought just paying for the Kinsentite mod was expensive enough. And by weapon, I meant the ones out of SWD and SFC. NOT TLPG.
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